Oooh that would be lovely, to hear Mister Dennis again. I really appreciate the podcast today.
I've moved completely on this topic. My mother died very young, of cancer, I have never forgotten her screams of agony, so for many years I supported assisted dying because no-one should have to suffer as she did. But two things changed my mind. About 6 years ago a relative ended up in Intensive Care as a result of medical negligence, Addison's Disease that had been undiagnosed for at least 15 years. He was in a terrible state and a DNR was put on his notes without his knowledge or that of his next of kin. His daughter, a nurse, played holy hell and they lifted it and actually made an effort to save him, which is when they discovered the Addisons. He's still alive and although he isn't well either physically or mentally, due to suffering Addisons for so many years, he is happy and has a good quality of life, and enjoys his close family. I've no doubt that if this bill was in force 6 years ago, he would have been considered dispensable. Don't assume that doctors are noble creatures who will try and save lives at all cost - we met the best and unfortunately the very worst during my relative's illness.
In the last month two young mothers, barely in their 40s, that I have known since they were tots, have died of cancer. So cruel. But they fought and fought to stay with their families for as long as possible. One campaigned vigorously for a drug available in Scotland, but not England and Wales, to be made available as it extends lifespan for her particular cancer, but it was deemed too expensive. I had news that the other lovely girl died as I was listening to your podcast. I have no faith in politicians, civil servants and the vested interests involved in this Bill. I suspect that these two beautiful young mothers might have been persuaded to give up their fights if assisted suicide was available.
I realise now that the horror of my mother's death was due to non-existent palliative care - back in the 1970s there were no hospices and people just died at home often in terrible circumstances. Palliative care is crucial and as you said in the podcast, there is a risk that it will be under-funded if assisted suicide becomes legal.
Sorry to have gone on so much, thank you for all the information this evening, I'll write to my local MP - we're in Wales so the unfortunate man has fallen foul of our passion for nicknames - he's Torsten Bell - I'll leave it to your imagination to guess what he's known as locally (the first word is Toasted ... ) :D xxx
One thing we didn’t mention is that the Senedd already voted down assisted dying and a Welsh minister appeared before the committee saying that the bill’s impact on devolved administrations hadn’t been considered. So Mr Bell might well be open to your letter.
Thanks, both for an excellent analysis of the dubious actions in Parliament. This really smacks of the government , while actually backing the bill, hiding behind the fact that it is a private members' bill.
I used to be a member of Dignity in Dying and I stopped due to the slippery slope. I just knew ultimately it could go to a place I could not condone, and Canada has shown us that already 🫤
"Six months to live" is a self-fulfilling prophecy when the law has the right to kill the patient. It's completely non-falsifiable as a hypothesis.
The 'two doctors' rule seems to be a direct lift from the Abortion Act 1967. Almost all legal abortions in the UK have been signed off under the mental health clause, but with no requirement for psychological evaluation. One NHS Trust I recall was caught pre-signing blank forms as it was considered a formality.
Thank you for this vital conversation, Clive and Dennis. It opened my eyes because, as was the case with gay conversion therapy 2.0, I initially couldn't quite process the horror of what was happening here (as if my brain wouldn't allow it). So many parallels, as you say. In this topsy turvy and allegedly 'modern' world, the first (former) politician to effect the undermining of experts, Michael Gove, is now the editor of a magazine that is rightfully scrutinising Kim Leadbeater's continuation of his lazy and destructive legacy. Oh the dreadful irony! I resent Gove as much as Leadbeater for the trend he set in UK politics and the damage it has caused.
p.s. Wonderful to hear Mr. Dennis and Mr. Clive reunited again. I miss 'The Crucial Three' of you guys and Mr. Jack.
Something we should have learned from the gender wars is the danger of hyper subjectivity being brought into law. It's not a big jump to picture people saying "But what's so wrong with dying? If someone wants to do it, we have no right to disagree with them. One choice is as valid as any other."
Pretty weird how the government wants more & more control over every aspect of our lives, including what we say and think, but are very libertarian about removing barriers to suicide. Suddenly the individual is king. Cui bono?
I just read Kath Stock's contribution on this matter, seeing it as a combination of the efforts of Freedom Lovers and Altruistic Helper. V interesting.
Lovely to hear you voice Mr Dennis, I’ve missed you!
Excellent conversation and no surprises that I agree with everything you both said. The human body now being “modifiable” and “disposable” particularly resonated with me though I would add to that ‘commodifiable’ with surrogacy and life long dependency on ‘gender affirming care’ in mind. Good work!
So lovely to hear Mister Dennis again. Clive, Jack and Dennis are a terrific threesome, in the nicest possible way.
Mr D may well pop back at some point in the future
Oooh that would be lovely, to hear Mister Dennis again. I really appreciate the podcast today.
I've moved completely on this topic. My mother died very young, of cancer, I have never forgotten her screams of agony, so for many years I supported assisted dying because no-one should have to suffer as she did. But two things changed my mind. About 6 years ago a relative ended up in Intensive Care as a result of medical negligence, Addison's Disease that had been undiagnosed for at least 15 years. He was in a terrible state and a DNR was put on his notes without his knowledge or that of his next of kin. His daughter, a nurse, played holy hell and they lifted it and actually made an effort to save him, which is when they discovered the Addisons. He's still alive and although he isn't well either physically or mentally, due to suffering Addisons for so many years, he is happy and has a good quality of life, and enjoys his close family. I've no doubt that if this bill was in force 6 years ago, he would have been considered dispensable. Don't assume that doctors are noble creatures who will try and save lives at all cost - we met the best and unfortunately the very worst during my relative's illness.
In the last month two young mothers, barely in their 40s, that I have known since they were tots, have died of cancer. So cruel. But they fought and fought to stay with their families for as long as possible. One campaigned vigorously for a drug available in Scotland, but not England and Wales, to be made available as it extends lifespan for her particular cancer, but it was deemed too expensive. I had news that the other lovely girl died as I was listening to your podcast. I have no faith in politicians, civil servants and the vested interests involved in this Bill. I suspect that these two beautiful young mothers might have been persuaded to give up their fights if assisted suicide was available.
I realise now that the horror of my mother's death was due to non-existent palliative care - back in the 1970s there were no hospices and people just died at home often in terrible circumstances. Palliative care is crucial and as you said in the podcast, there is a risk that it will be under-funded if assisted suicide becomes legal.
Sorry to have gone on so much, thank you for all the information this evening, I'll write to my local MP - we're in Wales so the unfortunate man has fallen foul of our passion for nicknames - he's Torsten Bell - I'll leave it to your imagination to guess what he's known as locally (the first word is Toasted ... ) :D xxx
One thing we didn’t mention is that the Senedd already voted down assisted dying and a Welsh minister appeared before the committee saying that the bill’s impact on devolved administrations hadn’t been considered. So Mr Bell might well be open to your letter.
I’m so sorry to hear about your friends’ deaths.
Thank you for that information, I'll write to TB about the devolved administration angle x
Thanks, both for an excellent analysis of the dubious actions in Parliament. This really smacks of the government , while actually backing the bill, hiding behind the fact that it is a private members' bill.
Have cross posted
https://dustymasterson.substack.com/p/get-carter-part-2
Dusty
Lovely to hear Luton Lil again 🥰.
I used to be a member of Dignity in Dying and I stopped due to the slippery slope. I just knew ultimately it could go to a place I could not condone, and Canada has shown us that already 🫤
"Six months to live" is a self-fulfilling prophecy when the law has the right to kill the patient. It's completely non-falsifiable as a hypothesis.
The 'two doctors' rule seems to be a direct lift from the Abortion Act 1967. Almost all legal abortions in the UK have been signed off under the mental health clause, but with no requirement for psychological evaluation. One NHS Trust I recall was caught pre-signing blank forms as it was considered a formality.
Thank you for this vital conversation, Clive and Dennis. It opened my eyes because, as was the case with gay conversion therapy 2.0, I initially couldn't quite process the horror of what was happening here (as if my brain wouldn't allow it). So many parallels, as you say. In this topsy turvy and allegedly 'modern' world, the first (former) politician to effect the undermining of experts, Michael Gove, is now the editor of a magazine that is rightfully scrutinising Kim Leadbeater's continuation of his lazy and destructive legacy. Oh the dreadful irony! I resent Gove as much as Leadbeater for the trend he set in UK politics and the damage it has caused.
p.s. Wonderful to hear Mr. Dennis and Mr. Clive reunited again. I miss 'The Crucial Three' of you guys and Mr. Jack.
Something we should have learned from the gender wars is the danger of hyper subjectivity being brought into law. It's not a big jump to picture people saying "But what's so wrong with dying? If someone wants to do it, we have no right to disagree with them. One choice is as valid as any other."
Pretty weird how the government wants more & more control over every aspect of our lives, including what we say and think, but are very libertarian about removing barriers to suicide. Suddenly the individual is king. Cui bono?
I just read Kath Stock's contribution on this matter, seeing it as a combination of the efforts of Freedom Lovers and Altruistic Helper. V interesting.
https://unherd.com/2025/02/anorexia-shouldnt-be-a-death-sentence/
Lovely to hear you voice Mr Dennis, I’ve missed you!
Excellent conversation and no surprises that I agree with everything you both said. The human body now being “modifiable” and “disposable” particularly resonated with me though I would add to that ‘commodifiable’ with surrogacy and life long dependency on ‘gender affirming care’ in mind. Good work!